Thats the same. Glocks have gone off when people attempted to holster them and after they have holstered them, some times way later after holstering them like the fellow that got into his pickup truck. ), and the gun fell out of his pocket. Which in and of itself is user error / misuse. I dont know nothing about Sigs, I do know any gunm that goes off when I lay it on a table gets sold with a warning and I never touch that brand or model again. Hes talking about trial lawyers recruiting clients whove experienced negligent discharges with P320s and suing the gun manufacturer. Wont last!. They have hundreds of thousands of P320s in regular service now and, despite a search, we couldnt find a rash of reports of soldiers claiming their pistols are firing on their own. He likens it to a bow-and-arrow, pulled taut. Hilton's $15 million lawsuit said, "there have been 54 reported uncommanded discharges of the P320," meaning the gun went off by itself, over the last five years in 22 states and Washington, D.C. It upgraded its P320 pistols in October 2018, before the middle school incident, spokeswoman Amanda. The Milwaukee Police Department reports "multiple unexplained accidental discharges" of the Sig Sauer P320 9mm, a gun all officers are required to carry, making for more than 1,600 firearms. The modular SIG P320 is among the most widely-owned handguns on the planet. So if, say, a person was to accidentally get shot through no fault of their own and need to sue, which specific cartridge/appendage combo would yield the most favorable least pain/permanent-damage : highest-payout ratio? I call b-s on all these my gun magically went off. That said, I own multiple P320s, but all of them have the manual safety due to personal preference. in 2021," Bagnell said of the overall scope of the concern . TAMPA, Fla., July 27, 2021 /PRNewswire/ -- A 30-year veteran law enforcement officer with the Tampa Police Department (TPD) today filed a lawsuit against Sig Sauer, Inc., the maker of his. They are being replaced with Glocks. And many departments across the country have had to lower their standards for passing qualifications just to be able to hire on and keep officers. They admitted their problem and fixed it. You need to deliberately thumb the Pythons hammer back to get that trigger pull, each and every time. After watching a friend get killed by a Remington 700 by another friend and the ensuing fallout 31 years ago I decided that I didnt care if the P320 was fixed, it was getting sold. The Milwaukee police department has had 3 incidents of the Sig discharging while being in a holster sitting in a patrol car in 2023. . On February 19, 2021, Military.com reported: A former U.S. Marine and federal agent has filed a $10 million lawsuit against Sig Sauer Inc. alleging that his holstered Sig P320 a pistol that the Army's new sidearm is based on accidentally discharged, firing a 9mm bullet into his right leg. The SIG P320, which has been manufactured since 2014, is known to go off without the trigger being pulled if it's dropped and lands on the ground at a certain angle. The lawsuit, filed Wednesday on behalf of . Watching all these Glock fan boys drool over these lawsuits in their tribal brand-lust is like watching the talking heads on CNN announcing Trump lost the 2020 election. If they recruit smart cops, they wont have cops who will act against their political opponents outside of the constitution. SIG ultimately settled that lawsuit. Thats just myopic brand lust on parade. Aint been nothing but problems since the military dropped the 1911, what was it 85 year of trusted service? Too Many Accidents Trying to categorically say Brand X is better than Brand Y! Such being the case, there very well may BE in inherent design flaw in the gun; We shouldnt just cast the thought aside as being beyond consideration and insist on blaming the problem on operator error.. He wanted TTAG to convey that hes pro-Second Amendment. They mandate more discharges, with more property damage, more injuries, and more deaths. Cars have so many electronics these days, who knows what could have gone wrong! Sigs suck and my Glock is awesome!. Someone is going to read this thread and be bewildered. The truth is the absolute WORST semi-autos that Sig, H&K, Walther, Beretta or Glock makes today are more reliable than the best semi-autos made 40 years ago, by far. Keep the phrase legal momentum in mind. Having it as the ONLY trigger pull the weapon has seems (to me) clearly dangerous. Sound familiar? They both underwent full testing but while the Sig was the cheaper handgun ($1.50), it also quoted higher costs for magazines and spare parts, boosting the overall cost of the acquisition. At least the Lion roars when he is hungry, the C.E.O smiles at you and when you turn your back he puts a knife right into it. Just 3 days ago, a Florida Corrections recruit killed herself by a negligent discharge during firearms training. ABC News ran two reports on the topic last week, highlighting one particular cop in Bridge City, Texas who is suing SIG for $15 million. Police officers (maybe) do an annual qualification and thats it. Sig can burn for all I care. Yes, but that did not mean the machine would be able to go on being marketed like that. The sheriff's office said its investigation found no mechanical problems with its deputy's gun. The more someone touches, loads, clears, cleans, holsters, un-holsters, or otherwise deals with their firearm, the higher the statistical likelihood that complacence kicks in. This is the only post fix tale of p320 failure I have heard that is not some form of but it just went off, I didnt do nutthin! Good thing you werent serious, thatd be terr..uh.oops. . (It wasnt my gun). Asking for a friend. Harrison responded, No, I dont think the upgraded version should be recalled, in fact I think the previous version should be recalled so that everyone has the upgraded version.. Trigger is lighter than the Glock, it took years of aggressive training to reach the point of acceptable discharges with the Glock. The details are not out yet, but they use Glocks, and I will make a good bet that her trigger finger did the deed. That wont last for long, the P320 (M17 AND M18) are already failing in the field. And on the flip side of the coin is the decades of denial by Remington on the 700 which Ive seen firsthand. He is acting as a consultant in the Collette suit that was filed last week. 3) If the sear fails, there is the drop safety in the way of the striker. In a world of "innovative" guns, this truly is an innovated design and a step in the right direction for the future of pistols. In fact, I dont own ANY striker fired polymer pistol. PDs are dropping them from contracts. Really? The pictures on the internet were enough to scare the shit out of you especially his wound in the thigh. In 2021 you would think a company would understand MIM metallurgy. SIG is choosing to litigate their problems away. never got into the P320 It is to me a Range gun not a carry gun. The networks report didnt mention lawsuits filed by LEOs (or anyone else) against other gun makers claiming similar alleged design defects. Im more of a DS9 guy. The Hide Armory. Then after just three years without telling anyone they stopped all production including extra parts. Bravo. When he put his hand on the grip, the weapon fired, according to the lawsuit. And it doesnt take too much Googling to find plenty of reports of LEOs suing the Georgia company as well (see here, here, here, and here for just a few). It seems safe to assume that while SIG is coming up fast on the outside, GLOCK is still most likely the reigning champ in terms of the firearms most often carried by law enforcement and other government agencies. But it also has much worse quality control on the parts in my experience owning and working on both. That a shirt tail or jacket cinch cord slips into a holster. Glock is being sued too, because once loaded and a round is chambered, it also has a much lighter trigger than a DA/SA. Why you and I are arguing over a gun that neither owns or will own, Theres a couple of possibilities. For instance theres Lieutenant Thomas Ahern who was was performing a routine function (test) of his P320 when it fired at him without any force towards the trigger, resulting in the bullet impacting his left thigh.. The one officer in the ABC story had it wrapped in a rag in his gym bag? Companies stay silent It takes time for any new platform to work the kinks out. Canadian soldier wounded by accidental discharge used wrong holster: SIG Sauer Its interesting that ABC chose to leave that point out of one of their reports. The guys at the LGS saw only one broken striker but it confirmed what the manager who had the P320 go off and my thoughts. Wheee!!. Upgrades are for things that didnt work right in the first place. The weapon was out of battery when it fired.. He wasnt aware of it until contacted earlier this week by CBC News and suggested it was relevant in ongoing litigation in the U.S. We look forward to reviewing the incident in discovery in the United States, he said Friday. On the other hand, would we also condemn him for violating Rule 2 if the bullet had travelled through his outside wall, entered the adjacent house, and killed a resident thereof, or would we maybe, just maybe, place some blame on the manufacturer who created the pistol? Where is this lightning striking twice? With the 320, the striker is in full-cock position, and held there through the operation of the trigger sear and the positive striker-blocking safety. Excellent work. I would trust a hungry lion on the Serengeti plains of Africa more than I would a C.E.O. They simply have never been seen in the upper echelon of handgun makers, their entire business model is to offer cheaper guns at cheaper prices. SIG says ABC had intended to include some of those other claims in their reports, but after SIG informed the network of the additional information that was uncovered, those cases werent included in either of the segments. And yes, if I pulled some of those stunts, Id have my membership revoked. Training and experience are not a talisman that magically prevents accidents. Yaaay! Likewise, having a finger in the trigger-guard, or a clothing draw-string, or a retention strap, or some other object, when holstering the gun exonerates the maker, as the gun is firing with a trigger press of sufficient energy and stroke as designed. There was nothing wrong with the Glock action, it was a training issue. SIG just cannot seem to make a striker fired pistol that doesnt have issues. There used to be a problem, which is why Sig fixed it. Canadian soldier. Their visceral hatred for that which they see as competition to their little golden calf god and their blind, myopic, childish self-identification with an external dynamic is hilarious! there is no better. Sounds like most of these cases were off-body carry. Capitol Police Officers Explanation for Shooting and Killing Ashli Babbitt Is Riddled With Problems, The City of Wichita Raked In Almost $200,000 Selling Seized Guns in the Last Five Years, State Judge Issues Order Blocking Enforcement of Illinois Firearms Ban Act Statewide, Federal Judge Grants Injunction Blocking Enforcement of ATFs Frame or Receiver Rule, Illinois Rep. Bob Morgan: Anything Stamped M&P is a Weapon of War, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-ZZ6pynGLM, https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/dea-agent-lee-paige-still-wont-go-away/, https://sofrep.com/news/dod-evaluation-says-armys-new-sig-sauer-p320-service-pistol-riddled-issues/, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0LUbLu6TqA, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jsu6WsSQ2_g, https://millsentertainment.smugmug.com/William-Shatner-The-Wrath-of-Khan. Hammer guns have a half cock notch for a reason. If the military was going to go cheap then they should have thrown Taurus into the mix. Hilton has filed a $15 million lawsuit alleging the P320 has a serious design and manufacturing flaw. These lawsuits ARE about SIG making defective weapons. The P320s and P365s were junk, plain and simple. For the moron Neanderthals of the Far Right who will scream its the operators fault and we do not give a shit about marketing more safer designed weapons, if such idiotic polices were followed for other consumer goods today we would not have safety glass, anti-lock breaks, back up safeties, child proof medicine caps and chemical bottles, back up cameras, kick back muzzles on chain saws and the list goes on and on. The second version emphasized the upgrade to fix the drop safety issue and notes that Harrison believes that problem has been fixed. In 2020, the agent, who is a former marine, was doing his routine training with the P320. Give me a break. 01:10. Use a proper holster and follow other gun safety protocols. It provides another example of how the gun free zone purportedly keeps people safe by not only keeping guns away, but by requiring more discharges nearby. Anyway there was one good thing to come from those movies, The USS Vengeance. With Biden spending outrageous amounts of money, whats 100 million here or there? The P320 should be scrapped and SIG Sauer USA should redesign a new pistol around the striker firing mechanism instead of just retrofitting a hammer fired pistol (P250). What it likely means is that cops and other law enforcement officers carry and handle their guns far more often than the average Joe or Jane. The current allegations, then, are different, claiming that the P320 is prone to un-commanded discharges.. It was at that point that I knew the gun had a design flaw. He takes your wallet and car and leaves the SIG. 19 Feb 2021 Military.com | By Matthew Cox A former U.S. Marine and federal agent has filed a $10 million lawsuit against Sig Sauer Inc. alleging that his holstered Sig P320 -- a pistol. I have no idea. On Thursday, M.D. This subject has two prongs; One is the negligence of those who have shot themselves with 320s through violations of Rule 2, the other the possible mechanical design failing of the gun. Everyone knows Glocks are the absolute pinnacle of perfection and have never had one single defect ever! 1:07. Good job! Sig P320 Accidental Discharge 2021 Perhaps nothing speaks more clearly to the need for a total recall than the fact that in 2021, over four years after Sig Sauer offered its voluntary upgrade, people are still suffering injuries and lawsuits continue to be filed. -You plan on getting rid of your P320, great! Theyve gotten tons of contracts because the gun is cheap, cheap, cheap to make. Seems kind of like a Sig apologist article. U.S. lawsuits Look a fanboy. There are several stories about her in the news for various no reasons, she must be throwing them out by a dozen. He wanted to see how accurate the gun was, especially after the customer got it back after the voluntary upgrade. The problem is non-existent. The fact that Shatner was doing Wrath of Kahn meet and greets at 90 years old kind of soured me. Dude, your story is THREE years old. He was told to shoot two rounds. The settlement requires the gunmaker to reimburse owners of . Using an example from the first prong, we legitimately fault the user who shot himself in the palm, rightfully asking why in the WORLD his palm was in front of the muzzle when he set the gun down. The hype leading up to the P365 was pretty intense and the LGS sold a bunch of those. Wow new finger grooves, crazy innovation. The VIP screening with the meet and greet was like $600. in Capitalvania. What a wonderful parody of a MAC cultist! Whats the difference between a $600 Sig and a $300 Taurus? You simply may not PREFER one make to another, or may simply dislike another make, but were to the point in semi-auto pistol production history where amongst the big brands, the only real distinctions are preference. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. My gun just went off! This will include an alternate design that reduces the physical weight of the trigger, sear, and striker while additionally adding a mechanical disconnector. The SIG will be the shortest military contract for guns in history. First, keep in mind that allegations made in lawsuits are not statements of fact. Note that Harrisons comment about these claims possibly being the result of legal momentum were edited out of the longer Nightline version of the report. This website has been messed up all week so that might be the problem in replying. The moral of all of this is the reason Sig got the military contract was because they were selling guns at close to cost, they underbid Glock by a significant margin. A lot like carrying a cocked and locked 1911 but with the safety off. Additional questions about the Voluntary Upgrade Program are answered in the FAQ. Inside the gun, a metal piece called the sear should keep the weapon from firing until the trigger is pulled. It was expensive. This is what happens when you go with the lowest bidder. After all, there are limits on complying with Rule 2 and even Rule 3, because a gun muzzle is ALWAYS covering something, somewhere, and ALWAYS knowing what lies beyondperhaps FAR beyonda possible target is an impossibility. Not sure why it wont let me reply to you, but Ill reply to myself in the hope youll get it. Everyone remember the video of the DEA agent shooting himself while explaining that he was highly qualified to carry a gun? That show with no Shatner-Kirk and only a Nimoy-Spock wouldnt have gotten past the first season. The military is much smarter and no, the gun is not junk. Miraculously, no one was hit by the bullet, which ricocheted around inside the vehicle. They are plaintiffs versions of what they say happened. JTF-2 is the only unit in. I dont care about the upgrade that should never happen. No you haters are not smarter than the US military, who tested the P320 far more than your favorite YouTuber ever did. He probably had a double until it was over. I dont own a P320. Everyone remembers the problems the Beretta M9 had, but it got sorted and they went on to serve over 30 years. Dont quote the four rules of safety in your article when all the hotness in the gun world is appendix carry pointing something at an extremity and the photos you use showing front slide serrationsputting your hands fingers near the business end of the barrel, because press checks from the front is the way all the cool operator guys do it. Covid ruined that gravy train for him but hes still doing the conventions. To be sure, Ive informally asked every other owner of a Serpa holster when I meet them, whether they have ever had an ND because of the holster. These lawsuits arent about Sig making a defective weapon, theyre about lawyers building a nationwide consensus in civil trial that makes it easier (and more lucrative) to soak gunmakers. Its just dumb enough to sound like the plot to a damned Disney film. Have you ever noticed that big trouble usually comes in groups of 3. Like many of our readers, weve been watching the slow drip, drip, drip of lawsuits accumulate over the past couple of years against SIG Sauer. I guess none got her the attention she wanted and a national coverage so she went in for the bang. To make the striker leg pull off of the sear, you would have to impart a lot of rearward momentum and stop it suddenly. None of the current lawsuits appear to be in any way related to the now-fixed drop safety issue and most, if not all of the allegations seem to involve upgraded pistols or those produced after the drop safety problem was identified by SIG. That is exactly why all civilized countries have Government Agencies that monitor companies that have a callus disregard for human life and are only interested in the quick buck. Anyway around here they do. They function as commanded every time. The probable reason that some folks are saying that the P320 is unsafe is that there was a lawsuit filed in federal court in July of 2020 (Guay v. Sig Sauer) alleging that the 320 fired "un-commanded" without a trigger pull while in a holster. The SIG P320 has been the subject of numerous lawsuits, including one class action case, in the U.S. over injuries sustained because of accidental discharges. The trigger bar has to push up on it, for it to release. Result: Sig P320 goes off when dropped and shoots people. CBC News reached out to Sig Sauer and its Canadian distributor, M.D. I can say we are aware of the statement released by SIG SAUER, said Maj. Amber Bineau. https://millsentertainment.smugmug.com/William-Shatner-The-Wrath-of-Khan D. It doesnt matter whether SIG is at fault or not. Not only is it now the designated sidearm of all branches of the U.S. military, there are over a million of them in civilian hands. In June, Cambridge police Lt. Thomas Ahern filed suit, accusing Sig Sauer of selling a dangerously defective product after his P320 fired on its own while he was in the department's SWAT team van with six other officers. No Warp core, just a quantum singularity, The engine was basically a dorm fridge. A shame but then no one was hurt. Im not even sure I would do that with my 92 or something else that can be both decocked and locked. I have never had to have one serviced or replaced. It somehow moved to the hinges of the desk. While this incident occurred months ago, this erroneous media report is driven by multiple sources, including our competitors, and coincides with the imminent release of other Canadian military and law enforcement tenders, indicating the timing of its release is an attempt to improperly influence the procurements, the statement said. OR some gorilla with more brawn than brains ignored the 40lb trigger pull they suddenly had to break the tab. The more someone touches, loads, clears, cleans, holsters, un-holsters, or otherwise deals with their firearm, the higher the statistical likelihood that complacence kicks in. This is the goal of those who would disarm us at the Post Office, as we take little Yevgeniy or little Shaquina to school, as we fulfill our civic responsibilities as jurors to judge our peers, as we travel to and through less free jurisdictions. Canadian Special Forces Command has not said what caused the gun to go off unexpectedly, but the company said a conclusion has been reached. Mechanical engagement of sear to striker not deep enough (wanted lighter, smoother trigger pull without giving it any hand workmanship required with the deep notch much safer classic systems made since 1900) Result another big fail. Much has been made of Nimoys Spock being the most popular character in TOS, but Id argue that without Shatners over-the-top swagger and brash manner, the balance would be lost. As a striker-fired pistol, the P320 is "under constant pressure to fire," Bagnell said. Attorney Bagnell held up the law enforcement officers he represents as examples of people who are highly trained in carrying and using firearms. My dad owned one and that is exactly what happened one time when he was using it. Second, pardon us if were more than a little skeptical that the P320 in question or any other handgun fired when it was out of battery. While good firearms training and practices among law enforcement officers is certainly the case much of the time, weve seen far too many instances over the years of un-safe or downright dangerous practices by allegedly highly trained individuals to apply that kind of blanket endorsement to all cops or alphabet agency employees. I am also very much a DS9 fan, best series overall. Guess it hasnt dawned on them that: 1. Without a loser pays tort system, such abuse will go on and on. What I can say is that article reads like a hit piece on the individuals who may or may not of made mistakes with their firearms from someone who worships at the alter of sig. Theres just too much other paraphernalia bouncing around in there. But breaking news here, skippy. I cant stand Glocks but SIG P320s are junk. Thats fine. Get a dead trigger when the striker breaks. L. LRRifleman . They habitually use their customers as the product testers by selling what are essentially prototypes while quietly implementing rolling revisions. Even if it was an issue with the sear interface, there is still a firing pin safety that will not move unless the trigger is held firmly to the rear. I have almost a hatred for Glocks but the one thing that they are is reliable. When he opened the drawer the hinges pulled the Charters trigger. Yes, its reliable, but no more so than most other major brands well known models. Time will tell if no. I think in the end even if there is no mechanical defect (dont hold your breath) it will be found that the Sig is causing accidental discharges for the same reason the Glock does, because if you snag the trigger on the Sig model that does not have a manual safety (some do) the gun will accidentally fire.